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Aloysius Winklebauer and Cyril Winklebauer video interview on experiences in World War II (transcript)

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Al Winklebauer

World War II Oral History Interview


This is Suzette McCord Rogers and Peggy Stanton and we are at the home of Al Winklebauer, and also present are his two brothers, Leon, Cyril, and his sister.

Al: Rita.

Suzette: what?

Peggy: Rita.

Suzette: and Rita Winklebauer. Ok.  Caught me off guard you guys.

Al: (laughter)

Suzette: Can you tell me where you were born Al?

Al: Horton.

Suzette: At Horton Kansas, and what was your date of birth?

Al: 1/21 er 1/22/21.

Suzette: that’s easy to remember isn’t it, good thing, huh?

Al: I almost had it backwards I had 1/21/22 but it’s 1/22/21.

Suzette: 21 and let me ask you, uh, did you go to Horton High School? Did, you grew up here and stayed in town?

Al: Yes, Yes and I went to Horton High School, St. Leo’s Social School and Horton High School.

Suzette: And did you graduate from Horton High School?

Al: Yes, in ‘39

Suzette: In ’39. And what did your father do?

Al: He was a carpenter.

Suzette: A carpenter?

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: and when you went to high school did you help your dad? Did he had a business.

Al: Yes, we- people had to work back in those times to do what you could during the depression. Uh, but there wasn’t very much work around though in the thirties at that time.

Suzette: And you are the oldest of five brothers?

Al: No, I’m the second oldest of five brothers.

Suzette: The second oldest of five brothers, and were you in school when Pearl Harbor happened? What were you doing?

Al: No, I wasn’t in school when Pearl Harbor. I was out of school.

Suzette: What were you doing?

Al: I graduated in ’39.

Suzette: So what were you doing?

Al: I was working with my dad.

Suzette: Working with your dad as a carpenter.

Al: Yes. And then immediately after, well not immediately, I went in to defense work building barracks for troops that went to Nebraska.

Suzette: After Pearl Harbor or prior to that?

Al: No, after Pearl Harbor.

Suzette: After Pearl Harbor, ok.

Al: And then, then from there when that was completed, uh, went to Alliance, Nebraska and that was when I got my notice to go in for the service.

Suzette: So you were drafted in Alliance, you got your notice there.

Al: Well I got it here-

Suzette: Well you were working there-

Al: Yea I was working there I got it here. My father called me and told me I had to report to Fort Mizzer.

Suzette: And you were in the Army?

Al: Yes

Suzette: And what was, do you remember your battalion, your division?

Al: yes, uh, first time it was the 95th. Then they patched me out’a there to the 97th .

Suzette: And was there a regiment or a division?

Al: Yea, these were divisions.

Suzette: Oh.

Al: 95th division and 97th division.

Suzette: Were you in a battalion? Do you remember that?

Al: Yes, uh, in the 95ths I was only in there for about six months

Suzette: Ok.

Al: before I left there which was the 386th if, that was the Night of Satin.

Suzette: Was the 386th

Al: battalion, er, regiment

Suzette: Regiment

Al: And I was in Head Quarters Company

Suzette: Head Quarters Company.

Al: I can’t really tell you what I was in the 95th, or not, yes, yes.

Suzette: Well, you probably served more time in the 97th.

Al: Yes, and then I got, I don’t know if it’s worth that or not, I got recalled during the Korean crisis.

Suzette: I think that’s important. We want to know what wars you served in. So it was World War II and Korean?

Al: Yes. I was not in the Korean, I was only in there 9 months before I got released.

Suzette: You were still serving during the Korean though. What, what was your service dates? Do you remember when you were drafted?

Al: Yes, it was in July ’42.

Suzette: And when did you get out?

Al: In February of ‘46

Suzette: and then you were called back for the Korean?

Al: yes

Suzette: and do you remember the date on that?

Al: Uh,

Suzette: Just ball park it.

Al: It was, it was about September wasn’t it?

Brother: about so

Al: But I got called back first but I actually didn’t go in till January but I got, I got ___(tape unclear) permits. I went back in in February of ’51.

Suzette: ’51?

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: Ok. Ok. What was the highest rank you had during the World War II?

Al: Uh, Staff Sergeant in World War II.

Suzette: Staff Sergeant.

Al: and I made Sergeant first class when I, uh, I went in to Korea.

Suzette: Where were you trained? Where did you go boot camp.

Al: Uh, Campswift, Texas.

Brother: That’s a Navy term.

Suzette: Campswift

Brother: Boot camp.

Suzette: That’s the navy term? What’s the army term. Do you guys-

Al: Basic training. (laughter)

Suzette: Basic training (laughter)

Peggy: She’s been committing a …(tape unclear) the last 29 persons.

Al: laughter

Suzette: Well nobody told us

Sister: We’ve been talking about some Navy guys though. (laughter)

Suzette: Gosh, we’ve got to be careful about these things. So, after you went to basic training in Campswift, Texas, where did you got from there?

Al: Then, uh, for a time period out of there I went to Fort Leonard Foot, Missouri. With the 97th division, they had me out for the 97th.

Suzette: And, um, what kind of training were you receiving at this time? Did you get to choose what you wanted to do after basic training?

Al: Yea, you were where they put’cha. (laughter) No. You did not. But, I was in the right place at the right time because I was only in the 95th for 6 months pattering out ___(tape unclear).

Suzette: And how long were you there?

Al: Probably not too long. I was only there 3 times, but, uh, oh, how long was I there?

Suzette: You moved on somewhere else?

Al: Yea. From there we went out to St. Louis, and ‘en to California, and, uh, from there went back to Fort Leonard Wood, Missoura’.

Suzette: So, why did they send you out to California and then brought you back to Missouri?

Al: Because at that time we was training to go to Satterfield, and then they had the Battle of the Bulge and they changed orders and so sent us over to Europe.

Suzette: Was that a surprise to send you to Europe at that time?

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: So then after you went back to Fort Leonard Wood and then you were being sent, where did you go from there?

Al: And then, from that time, we went to New York to go to Europe.

Suzette: To ship out to Europe.

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: Do you know what year that was approximately?

Al: Yea, that was in, um, ’44.

Suzette: ’44 and then where did you got in Europe?

Al: Um, to the line men.

Suzette: Did you stop at inland ports or did you go directly

Al: Oh, no. We went direct.

Suzette: And did you get off in France, Luxembourg?

Al: No, no. We went, um, when we went we shipped directly in to the line. I was only over there for 4 months I believe.

Suzette: But you went directly into a German port.

Al: We went right directly to the lines.

Suzette: What, what, what I’m trying to find out here is where did they land you for you to get to the German line.

Brother: Where did you disembark?

Al: You know, I don’t know. It was, it would have to be-

Suzette: Did you have to march to get to the German line?

Brother: I think you’re trying to ask where his boat came-

Suzette: Yes. Yea I was just trying to help him. Like maybe they had to march or something.

Al: No, uh, it’s not on there.

Suzette: Oh that’s ok. That’s all right. So, you went straight to, you went straight to the German line.

Al: Yes.

Suzette: And was this for the Battle of the Bulge or this was, this was

Al: After.

Suzette: After. Um, there was something called the Sigfreid line. Was that what you were involved in?

Al: No. I was at the, uh, uh,. We was at the-it was right around Doosel though. We went right in to the line until- I was only over in Europe for, uh, March to June.

Suzette: Ok. Did you have any skirmishes during that time when you were there? Were you engaged?

Al: Oh, yes. We were engaged.

Suzette: And you went directly to the lines and

Al: Say, now when you say engagement, I’m gonna say our company was.

Suzette: Um, hum.

Al: Because I was in supply.

Suzette: Yea.

Al: So I was behind the front lines.

Suzette: Being attached to Head Quarters Company, you know, you were probably among the, um, the elite ‘cause there were people supplying and administrating.

Al: Um, hum. It, uh, but I was in the field. Very definitely in the field ‘cause I was, but I was not, uh, on the front lines.

Suzette: And what did you do? What were your duties when you were in Germany?

Al: Supply for the troops, you know there clothing and their whatever.

Suzette: And you were, uh, actually, you know, you were-

Al: Mostly I was gett’n water and all that good stuff. (laughter)

Suzette: So you went up and visited the lines to see what they needed like water and food.

Al: No, they’d come down and tell their commander what, what they had to do.

Suzette: And, so you made sure, you said you made sure they had water?

Al: Yea, um hum. That’s the first thing we done is to when we went in there was get on the 6 by 6’s and we had no idea, I had no idea, where we were goi’n or how we was gettin back. You know, it was a different situation all together. You was goi’n in there in the middle of the night and you didn’t know where you was headed for and, uh.

Peggy: What is a 6 by 6?

Al: truck. There, there, uh, there bigger trucks. They haul the troops around in.

Peggy: So how did you try to supply water to the front line?

Al: Well we got it in containers. These containers.

Peggy: Barrels?

Al: Yes, they’re what you call duffle bags, not duffle bags, uh, what was that bag that they called it?

Brother: Don’t ask me, mumble.

Suzette: Go ahead. You guys can also speak up.

Leon: Lister bags.

Al: Lister Bag, yea.

Brother 2: It’s a humongous bag that, that would hold water and it would hang on a tree

Al: On a tree or someplace safe to get the water out

Leon: and there were various spicketts at the bottom of it, see, and then you could fill your canteen, and if it, uh, when it ran out, you know we’d fold it in half.

Peggy: wow.

Brother: So it’d be easy to keep.

Suzette: To, to take that?

Leon: yea.

Suzette: And that’s Leon Winklebauer speaking. Leonard?

Leon: yes (laughter)

Suzette: Too many guys. (laughter) So, now where did you get your water from, I’m kind of interested about that, were you like in a city or, where did you get your water from.

Al: Oh, no we weren’t in town. I, I have no idea where we got it from or any of the uh, the drivers and whoever was lead’n that, they just took us right up to the place to get it. If you wanna know the truth I was so danged scared I didn’t know what I was doi’n. (laughter)

Brother: They always had dance parties

Al: Yea. Where the stuff was.

Brother: And your food was actually sea rations, third rations and stuff like that. You really had to chew. It didn’t take long to find out where there was water. You had to.

Suzette: Having clean water would be really important I would think.

Brother: mumble

Al: Well, it wasn’t as important as you thought, you know, what, one of the things that I can remember that they done if you didn’t have clean water they’d give you iodine, you had iodine, with iodine you had to get it out of the crick to put it in water to go ahead and uh

Suzette: Um, hum

Al: That water was a pretty precious commodity even when we was over here, when we went out on bedwax. You got a helmet full of water to go ahead and clean up in, shave and the whole ball of wax. You got water and your wax. And you know you had your canteen for drinking water. But, uh, water was a pretty

Brother: (tape unclear) the canteen. It wasn’t a quart was it?

Al: Yea, yea, that’d be a, a quart anyway.

Brother: They wanted you to ration your intake of water because you may be in a place where you couldn’t get any.

Suzette: So did they say like a canteen a day, or was there any, any rule on that?

Brother: Well there was more available.

Al: You were supposed to be able to get by on a canteen a day.

Suzette: Ok. That sure differs from today’s standard for water.

AL: Yea. But, uh, back when there were kids when we were.

Suzette: Yea, how old were you when you went to Europe.

Al: 21

Suzette: 21, now,

Al: As soon as you got 21 they drafted you see, uh,

Suzette: Oh, so,

Rita: mumble

Al: Huh?

Rita: what was the saying? 21?

Al: No that’s what you got paid.

Rita: yea.

Al: We got paid 21 dollars a day once a month

Leon: That was the pay

Al: That was the pay when you went

Suzette: Oh, da, I never knew that.

Al: You got 21 dollars a day when you got paid.

Suzette: Hum

Al: And course you didn’t need much. All you had to do, you had to have money to buy a beer or play Ten King.

Suzette: Um, hum.

Al: But I don’t remember what it cost but it wasn’t anything to speak of, and cigarettes, course cigarettes, uh, that’s what amazes me right now is these DVD’s on World War II. You don’t see any service men or officer anything else who didn’t have a cigarette in his mouth back in WWII.

Suzette: But, but was that a cultural thing?

Al: Oh yes, everybody smoke then. Like MacArthur, hell he had a pipe in his mouth all the time, looked like a corncob pipe.

Brother: Like Theodore Roosevelt. I just saw him on the TV last night.

Al: He had a cigarette. He had to use a cigarette holder though.

Suzette: Yea he did, I remember that.

Al: But, you know, cigarettes, cigarettes were, uh, relative to us, they were cheap in the United States but if you got out for three miles you bought ‘em for ten cents, uh

Brother: Nickel of pay.

Al: Yea, 50 cents a carton. Now, what do the cost now 30, 40 dollars?

Suzette: Oh I think so, they’re pretty expensive.

Al: I don’t know.

Suzette: They got so they got you started and now they’re at the price they want. (laughter)

But what were some of the other things you were responsible for besides water that you remember?

Al: Well,

Brother: A Supply Sergeant is what it, what it means, everything.

Al: Yea, in here you don’t, for your clothing their, uh, we wasn’t ammunition and rifles and all that we had nothing to do the ammunition.

Suzette: Now did you have a rifle? You were in supply

Al: Oh, yes

Suzette: but you had a rifle so you were ready to defend yourself.

Al: Oh, yes. And of course what you always wanted before you got over there, you always wanted to have a pistol ‘cause they wasn’t hard to carry. But when you got over there you didn’t want the car beam you wanted the damn rifle. (laughter) It wasn’t more powerful than a longer range.

Suzette: You got a little more distance. (laughter)

Peggy: Probably more accurate too.

Al: Oh, yes. There ain’t no question about that. But when you had to go on these marches and, uh, with a full field pack, you know, and your, you couldn’t have, they wouldn’t give ‘ya a 45 unless you was an officer and then you could get it.

Suzette: Huh.

Al: You had to carry heavier stuff.

Suzette: So, so it was better in some ways to be an officer if you could get one of the lighter ones.

Al: And I’ll tell you when it was really good to be an officer, course I probably shouldn’t even tell you this, but what we done several times down in Louisiana, which was down in there place out in a field. One night Pox come around and he was the one on duty to check the troops. We had men on both sides of the crick; had a pretty good rain that night, you know, so he comes and gets me and another guy to go out and check the troops and we got up to this crick he walks up to it and course you would do anything you could to ___(tape unclear) and he looked at that and says well I’m gonna have to jump across that. He come back to me and he says you stand here and when I guess I’ll, that’s when I’ll go jump and I should be able to make it across the crick. So when he went back I went back just one pace and it was only about five feet across that darn thing but when he jumped he jumped right in the middle of it. (laughter) He was’n a bit annoyed he thought, if I’d a laughed he probably would’ve busted me right. All he said was woops I didn’t make it. (laughter)So, you know there was a lot of comical things going on.

Suzette: Well, I’m sure. Do you have some other stories?

Al: Oh, yes.

Suzette: Well, I’m listening. I’ve got our tape on. (laughter)

Al: But some of the stories, one of ‘em, we had the Aladdin lamps when we was out on Bib’whak, and again this was in Louisiana. And, uh, I was, I had to take them things, course they were supposed to use white gas but if we didn’t have it we used leaded gas. So, consequently about every night you had to tear the thing down and clean the lead out so it’d work.

Suzette: hum.

Al: And, uh, I’d always try to keep one back for us guys, for us guys to play poker, you know, and every dang time I’d do that they’d catch us, and they’d come over, the officers would catch us, they’d take it so they could have their games. (laughter)

Suzette: ‘Cause they saw the light.

Al: They saw the light. You couldn’t hide it, you know, it was pretty bright. (laughter) It, uh, I don’t know, it wasn’t all bad. You made a lot of friends and everything else in the service.

Suzette: Um, did you maintain any friendships with people when you came back?

Al: Yes, with several of ‘em. But probably the closest one was one of the buddies I, uh, met during, when we went back into the Korean Conflict and, uh, he is still livin’ he’s up in Wisconsin, what’s the name of the place, anyway. He’s not very good.

Brother: He was on the assembly line wasn’t he?

Al: Well, you, he was on the assembly man.

Brother: Assembly man.

Al: He went in to ___(tape unclear) He’s not very good.

Suzette: I see.

Al: But that first thing, the first time I ever met him I had to go back up to Sheridan during the Korean Conflict and then they sent me to Fort Leonard Wood. And the first night they, when I was, in Fort Leonard Wood, it was just dark and I seen this guy goi’n purple, goin from this barracks to this barracks, carrying chairs. And he’d come out and he’d look and then he would run across then go back and get some more. (laughter) I was goi’n what in the devil is goi’n on? Didn’t say anything but here was this Lieutenant, this good friend of mine, he found out that our company didn’t have any chairs and the company across had all the chairs and steal’n ‘em! (laughter) ‘Course the next day we had to take ‘em all back! (laughter)

Suzette: You did? They caught you (laughter)

Brother: That was called a midnight requisition. (laughter)

Suzette: I like that. (laughter)

Al: Oh, well, that’s enough of that stuff.

Suzette: Well, so, but you did form friendships where you were.

Al: Oh, yes, pretty definitely.

Suzette: In Europe and, and you maintained some of them.

Al: Yea, maintained some of ‘em.

Suzette: So it was, uh, it was I think you’ve touched something that, that is important in terms of expanding, you know, who you knew and, and your experience.

Al: Um, hum. It, uh,

Peggy: Mumble

Al: huh?

Peggy: Unclear mumble.

Suzette: Um, what, what, did you go to Japan for the Korean War or WWII?


Suzette: Ok. So we need to leave Germany then.

Al: Yep.

Suzette: So where did you go then.

Al: Huh?

Sister: Did you have something to say Leonard.

Leo: no.

Al: I, uh, I left, uh, Europe the 16th of June and got back on the 21st, er, 25th, and then I went to the European Theatre the 28th of August of the same year. We was the last, uh, division to go in’ta, uh, the European Theatre and we was the first to come back. Soon as the war ended they immediately shipped us back to the United States to go to which we was trained for, to go to the Pacific.

Suzette: To go to the Pacific, so.

Al: And we left, they give us thirty days leave and then we’d, uh, headed to the Pacific. When I was on the boat the war ended, in the Pacific.

Suzette: Ok.

Peggy: Which way were you goin’? Coming back from the U.S.?

Suzette: No, he was

Al: I was goi’n out. We was on the water then for thirty days; they didn’t know what to do with us.

Suzette: On the way to, to, the Pacific? You were in the Pacific Ocean?

Al: Yes, it was in the Pacific Ocean and we was on the, on the water there for, I think it was 29 days, but right at 30 days. And then they finally just sent us in to Yokahama

Suzette: They sent you to Yokahama?

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: And

Al: And then from there we went in to Europe, Japan, to dismantle some of their, some of their stuff.

Suzette: And what were you dismantling?

Al: The, their ordinances.

Suzette: And, uh, did you, uh, how long were you there in Japan?

Al: Not very long, I, uh, see, when I come back, uh

Suzette: You went in August I think. It sounds like maybe September is when you did.

Al: Yes, and then I, to February the 1st was when I got back.

Suzette: February the 1st?

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: Ok, and that was in, uh, in ’46?

Al: ’46.

Suzette: ’46. So were you part of the occupation forces in Japan then?

Al: Yea, I guess you could say I was. Um, hum. Cause, you know the war was over with.

Suzette: Um, hum. And did you, um, did you encounter any I mean did you talk to any of the Japanese people who lived locally? Did you, you know, interact with them at all?

Al: Oh, yes, yes, uh, in fact there’s in my, when I was over there my supply room was a, I don’t know what they call this tent, what was it a 20 by 20 tent, or how big were them tents?

Brother: I do’no.

Al: Huh?

Brother: For, for supply?

Al: yea.

Brother: Oh, I don’t know I didn’t have one.

Al: Well that’s what, what my supply room was, see, ‘cause, anyways I had a couple of Japs in there buildn’ shelves and, uh, so I could get the stuff on the shelves and, uh, and this is a very, very amusing thing as far as I was concerned I had done it unintentionally. But as we was, went in to get our ___(tape unclear) got dinner this particular day I went back to my field desk sett’n there and on top, see they issued us chew’n tobbacca for the troops too, I had chew’n tobacco up there and this Jap he seen these plugs of chew’n tobacco on top of my desk, ‘course I could understand what he motioned to me he wanted to know what it was. So, I grabbed one of those plugs took a bite off of it, spit it out and threw him the plug. And what does he do but he eats the plug! (laughter) He walked off and didn’t come back. I asked his helper in a few days what was the matter with him there, and he had swallowed ___of __(tape unclear).  (laughter)

Suzette: He was very sick I bet. Did he ever come back?

Al: No, he never came back.

Suzette: Did you get to see any of Japan when you were there? Did they let you have any furloughs or anything?

Al: No, I was along the, uh, uh, my whole time overseas was less than a year both places.

Suzette: Um, hum. And I didn’t ask you this but when you were over in Germany did you encounter any German civilians? Did you interact with them at all?

Al: Yes, I would several times with the civilians. Fact there’s probably the one thing that was, well, no this was when things were over with, right after they was over with, uh, right after they was over with, you know, this, uh, we was very skeptical over there and these girls, young girls, they insisted that, I think there war three or four of us, that we go with them see. ‘Course you was so skeptical yet you thought they was leadin’ you into a trap. But they would not let us go, they made us go with them, and what did we find there but a bunch of bodies of, uh, American troops. I think there was someth’n like four or six and of course we had had a few drinks and we were, but if anything else will sober you us quick that will. And then of course when we moved the bodies, they’d been in there quite a while, there was a terrible stench.

Suzette: Oh, I bet it was bad for ya.

Al: But, uh, we didn’t hurry-

Suzette: Do you want’a keep goin? No. Did they speak English?

Al: No, no they didn’t.

Brother: In, in Germany or?

Suzette: In, in both places in Germany or Japan?

Al: No.

Suzette: Um, do you have any other memories you want to share with us we have time.

Al: No, there’s too many.

Brother: Tell ‘em what you sent home from Japan to your future wife.

Al: Oh, yea. In Germany we took over, uh, a liquor place. They was harvest’n supply and we, uh, they issued me a whole bunch of liquor to give to the troops and then, this is right before the war ended, when it ended they cut word back to, um, I had to turn it in. Well I didn’t turn it in I had a driver and we was goin’ down in those 6 by 6 and any time you seen anybody that had a marked uniform you threw him a bottle (laughter). But anyway the same thing happened over in Japan. They, uh, I had a, I don’t have any idea how many bolts of silk they issued me to give to the troops and I had no idea of bolts of silk was in, or how many yards was in there, but anyway I ended up giv’n one to each one of ours and we had a hundred and I think a hundred and thirty some in the company, bolts out to them. And they could, they’d let ‘em send a bolt home and, course I wrote back home and my future wife which was her, uh, I brought a bolt and she made her wedding dress out it.

Suzette: Oh, you did, now you told me she was your sister when I came in.  (laughter)

Al: No I said Loyd was her sister. (laughter)

Suzette: Oh, I’m sorry. (laughter)

Peggy: We need to ask him about his relationship with his wife.

Suzette: Um,

Al: That’s all.

Suzette: Did, did you know each other before you went to war?

Al: No.

Suzette: Ok.

Al: I met her, I met her when, between when I got back from Europe on the 30 days.

Suzette: On your furlough.

Al: On my furlough.

Suzette: And did you wear your uniform and did you catch her with your uniform?

Al:  Well, I had to wear a uniform back then.

Suzette: Did you think he was zipping in his uniform?

Rita: Oh yes.

Suzette: Um, hum. So after the war, um, did you take advantage of the G.I. Bill to get any education?

Al: No.

Suzette: Um, to buy a home or build a home?

Al: No.

Suzette: Do you take advantage of the G.I. Bill now?

Al: No. I tried to, um, get some prescription stuff but they denied me.

Suzette: Oh they did.

Al: Yea the veterans did.

Suzette: Ok so you tried to use the Veterans Administration

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: and they denied you

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: So you get your own prescription and you have your own doctors and so the

Al: I had a card when I first went out but they pulled them away from us for some reason and I don’t now I got rid of that and that was a mistake ‘cause once you let’em have it they wouldn’t give it back to ya. ‘Course they couldn’t take care of all the veterans because there was too many veterans and not enough hospital space for ‘em.

Suzette: So they started taking, they had a card they gave you but then they tried to take that.

Al: Um, hum. Yes. If you went to see ‘em they took the, uh, you give it to ‘em but you didn’t get the darn thing back.

Suzette: Well, that was probably, did you feel that that was not very fair?

Al: Well, I do now.

Suzette: How, how important were the, the veterans organizations to you after the war?

Rita: tell ‘em about your mother.

Al: Huh?

Rita: Tell them about the Red Cross.

Al: Oh, no, that, that wasn’t veterans.

Rita: Well

Al: but I did have a bad experience with the Red Cross when I was in Japan. The Red Cross, my mother was very sick and she wasn’t expected to live, and the Red Cross sent word for, you know, my release so I could come home on emergency furlough and they got word that I was on my way and I never got my

Peggy: You never got notified  

Al: I was not notified and I did not know it until I come back, I was only about a week away from com’n back and gett’n discharged, till I called her from San Francisco after I’d come back. And I always wondered, on here it says the date when I left is unkown in Japan see, and I’ve always wondered whether that some way is one of the reasons I-

Suzette: Did you lose your mother while you were there?

Al: No. When I called her I could have got emergency furlough from San Francisco to come back but she said she was gett’n along ok. So now I’m home and that’s all, you know the rest of it.

Suzette: Now, wait a second, I have one more question and then I’m going to ask you guys what it’s like to be all brothers serving on the  ____ family. But, um, I have one more question. With the veterans organization did you get involved in the American Legion when you came back after the war.

Al: Just joined ‘em.

Suzette: You joined them?

Al: No, I’m not really active involved.

Suzette: So,

Al: Either that of the VFW either one.

Suzette: It wasn’t important to you to be in that kind of organization then?

Al: No.

Suzette: When you came back what did you do, when you came back? Did you want to come back to Kansas when you got out, or were you kind of thinking you were going to stay-

Al: Well, certainly I wanted to come back I had her hid’n out.

Suzette: You had a girlfriend waiting for you. Now had you written letters during the war, was that very important for you to get her letters?

Al: Yea, but I didn’t get ‘em.

Suzette: You didn’t?

Al: No. Because, uh, you see when we left here I was on the water for 30 some days, you don’t get mail on the boat. We didn’t have email!

Suzette: I see. Ok

Al: And, uh, you know, I don’t know how long it was before anything caught up. I’d been in Japan and we had to have a, what was it, an 18-O number before you’d get any, any mail. And so there was a period of time there where you didn’t hear from anybody.

Suzette: And, um, did that worry you when you weren’t able to be in communication?

Rita: mumble (laughter)

Suzette: And was there any, any recourse you had, you couldn’t complain to anybody, yea, you just waited?

Al: She didn’t have any idea where I was or whatever.

Suzette: Now when did you get married?

Al: In, uh, ’47 February the 13th

Suzette: You came back and what did you do when you came back? Did you start helping your father again or?

Al: Yes.

Suzette: As a carpenter?

Al: Um, hum.

Suzette: Um, did the war, um, train you or prepare you for any job or business you might have after the war?

Al: No. No, we done the same thing we, uh, before the war.

Suzette: Now, what kind of carpentry work were you doing?

Al: We was doing construction.

Suzette: Construction?

Al: Home buildings

Suzette: Ok.

Al: There, er, the four, four of us all were soon building homes.

Suzette: Oh good, we’ll talk to you about that then. Ok I wanna, um, thank you very, very much for this interview.

Al: I don’t get paid?

Suzette: No. (laughter)For allowing us-

Al: Well, that’s just like the army!

Suzette: Well, I don’t get paid either! (laughter) So we’re all underpaid (laughter) Thank you very much. Thank you very much.

Al: You didn’t put all that on—


Suzette: Again this is Cyril Winklebauer that we are interviewing on the end of side A and this is, uh, this is Suzette McCord Rogers and Cyri, and you mentioned that you had formed some friendships and bonds there but it seems like you got to also experience, you know, like being able to go off base.

Cyril: Right.

Suzette: That you got to experience, you know, a more normal, you know, life.

Cyril: yes.

Suzette: And did you help your father on the farm on the weekends or?

Cyril: Did I help him? No, no.

Suzette: Were you cooking? Did you cook?

Cyril: No. (laughter) No, but I enjoyed some good meals there.

Suzette: Oh, you did? Um, have you maintained contact with anybody that you served with at that time?

Cyril: Oh, yes. Yes, I’ve had contact with a lot of ‘em.

Suzette: You-

Cyril: It’s just down to one now.

Suzette: It’s down to one. Did you used to visit and write each other?

Cyril: Yes, yes.

Suzette: And you maintained that throughout your time.

Cyril: Right.

Suzette: And, uh, did you serve for the rest of your time in Levft Field or did you go somewhere else after that?

Cryil: I went to South America.

Suzette: Ok. You went to South America.

Cyril: Yes, I was in Brazil. And I was down there one year and that’s when I got notice about my mother being ill and the Red Cross notified me that she was going to have an operation that she had a 50- 50 chance to survive so I got to come home on account of that. I was there just one year. I was, after your down there about a year your entitled to go to Rio de Janeiro in the past down there but I didn’t get to go because I had my mother, see. 

Suzette: Oh, I see. Where were you stationed in Brazil?

Cyril: I was in the tail in Recife and Balem, I spent most my time in Balem.

Suzette: Now those are, are up in northern Brazil up in that jungle region is that kind of hot up there?

Cyril: Yes, yes it was hot.

Suzette: I bet you were looking forward to going to Rio?

Cyril: I was, I was, but with the circumstances I wanted to get and see my mother.

Suzette: Certainly.

Cyril: And I got back and I got to see her.

Suzette: You got back and what happened?

Cyril: When I got back I got to the states they sent me to Topeka and they says do you want your discharge or furlough and I says what do you mean discharge me? They says you’re in the states now you’re eligible for a discharge and I said well let me think a minute, you know, this was quite a shock to me and I says, uh, I thought a bit and I said well, uh, give me time off so I can go down and see my mother, she was in Kansas city, so I got two weeks off of leave and then after that I went back to Topeka and got my discharge done.

Suzette: and that was in 1946?

Cyril: ’46 February ‘46

Suzette: Ok, well let’s go back to Brazil a little bit. What were you doing in Brazil? I think a lot of people didn’t realize that we were down in South America during WWII.

Cyril: Well, it was just a place, an emergency place for planes to stop down there goin’ to Africa.

Suzette: So, planes were leaving Brazil and flying to Africa?

Cyril: Not necessarily I mean it was an emergency place, uh, place for ‘em to stop if they had to see?

Suzette: So you had landing strips? You were in three areas did they have landing strips in each one of those areas?

Cyril: Uh, yes. Um, hum.

Suzette: ‘Cause I know, I know Recife and Belem I think are on the coast are they not?

Cyril: Right, right.

Suzette: and, uh, were you also watching for German submarines?

Cyril: Well, the Navy had a base down there and they was doi’n that.

Suzette: And, were, did any of the Air Core go out and fly over and look for submarines to spot ‘em from the air?

Cyril: No, no, no.

Suzette: The Navy was responsible for the submarines-

Cyril: We didn’t do nothing

Suzette: in South America.

Cyril: Um, hum.

Suzette: Um, so there were landing strips at each of these places you were at

Cyril: Yes. 

Suzette: And um, what were there planes assigned to each of these fields other than being an emergency strip?

Al: Uh, no I don’t think so.

Suzette: About how many people were at each area then?

Al: I don’t know, there wasn’t that too many down there.

Suzette: Kind of a small group?

Al: Yes. They used a lot of the people down there to help out too, see, the Brazilians.

Suzette: So, you interacted with Brazilian people?

Al: um, hum

Suzette: and they speak Portuguese

Al: right

Suzette: Do you speak Portuguese?

Al: No (laughter)

Suzette: Did they speak English?

Al: About as good as I could speak Portuguese. (laughter)

Suzette: So how did they help? Did you have them carry your potatoes for you?

Al: Yes, sure. (laughter) They worked right in the mess hall.

Suzette: did they?

Al: Yea.

Suzette: And did you have time to travel around or see any of Brazil?

Al: Uh, no. I just go into town once in a while, you know.

Suzette: Um, hum.

Al: Which was nice.

Suzette: And, do you have any memories of, of Brazil that, you know, particularly enjoy like when you went to town?

----Tape side B

Suzette: so, do you have other memories that you would like to share with us from your service?

Cyril: From when I was in the service?

Suzette: Um, hum.

Cyril: Uh, yea. When I went in to the service I was engaged to be married. When I got to Florida I got a Dear John letter. So after 34 months when I came back to Topeka to get my discharge I was embarrassed and I was upstairs and I went down stairs. It was a dreary day, mist’n you know and there was some soldiers play’n poker and they says you wanna join us and I said yea if you don’t mind so I set down play’n poker with ‘em you know. And this guy was a’ talki’n which I was too, you know, and he says where are ya’ from and I says I’m from Horton, KS. And he says I married a girl from Horton, KS. I says who did you marry, he was married to the girl I was engaged to.

Suzette: How did you feel about that? Were you able to play with him after that?

Cyril: That’s the truth

Suzette: I believe you. So what did you-

Cyril: Well, and even after that we left Topeka to go to Fort Leavenworth for our discharge, we rode the same bus from Topeka down there, we got our discharge together at Fort Leavenworth, and we rode the same bus from Leavenworth to here because his wife was here in Horton at that time.

Suzette: Waiting for him.

Cyril: Right.

Suzette: So how did you feel about that? Were you-

Cyril: Well, I was broken hearted when I got the Dear John letter but what could I do I was 2,000 miles away from home.

Peggy: I wanna’ hear more about how you met your wife through the USO.

Cyril: How I met my wife?

Suzette: Well, I wanna hear about his Dear John letter (laughter) I never knew anybody that got a Dear John letter. (laughter)

Brother: You’re kidd’n me.

Suzette: No. So, um, how did you feel about riding with a man that had stolen your sweetheart, did you have to be civil?

Cyril: Well, I had a girlfriend then.

Suzette: Oh, so you’d recovered.

Cyril: So, I was over her.

Suzette: So, you met your wife in the USO?

Cyril: Yes, I met my wife in the USO in Dallas, that was the place that you would go, you know, to be entertained. We was play’n ping-pong, I was play’n ping-pong with her and that’s when I met her.

Peggy: So when did you get married?

Cyril: When? September the 30th 1946.

Peggy: So.

Brother: About two months after me.

Peggy: Yea, you told us you had a rash of marriages there in one year, or did you have to have her come up from Texas.

Cyril: Yes, we got married in Kansas City at the Holy Family Church down there.

Peggy: Were you living in KC then or was she?

Cyril: No, I was liv’n here in Horton but she was a convert and she’d, uh, choose the church where we got married so we got married down there. The reason we got married down there was because the priest that was their then was here in Horton when I went in to the service.

Peggy: You gave her her instructions?

Cyril: She took instruction at Fort Sam Houston, Texas.

Peggy: Oh so she was-

Cyril: She was transferred from Dallas to Fort Sam Houston.

Peggy: mumble

Cyril: That’s where she got her instruction there.

Peggy: So, then how did she get to Kansas City?

Cyril: How did I get to Kansas City?

Brother: How did she?

Cyril: From Dallas or from?

Peggy: From San Houston.

Cyril: Well, I was down there a while after I got out of the service, see.

Peggy: Oh

Suzette: Oh, you did, so you stayed, you stayed in Texas?

Cyril: Do what?

Suzette: Did you stay in Texas then after you got released?

Cyril: Um, a short time. Then I put in my application for jobs at the Fort plant down there and the air craft place down there, and, uh, I didn’t stay down for long, just to see if I could get a job or not. Then I decided to come back here to work with dad, see.

Suzette: what made you decide to come back and work with your father?

Brother: He got hungry. (laughter)

Suzette: But he was waiting for an application to a big paying job.

Brother: You got to, you got to go back to the wedding. The priests that married them, 60 years later is still active in a church in Kansas City.

Peggy: Oh, my goodness.

Brother: So there’s another quirk. This Winklebauer bunch has got a bunch of quirks.

Suzette: Yes.

Peggy: Who was the priest that married you?

Cyril: Father Mayoch. He was here in Horton and he’s still active.

Brother: He was a good tidily-wink player too. (laughter)

Suzette: Tidily-wink? You guys played some interesting games.

Peggy: There was one game where I could be competitive. (laughter)

Brother: You don’t remember tidily-winks? No you wouldn’t you’re too young.

Suzette: I don’t remember

Brother: You was a kid yet.

Suzette: I don’t know how, I don’t have a clue. I just love thinking of plastic dish that you-

Peggy: That’s right

Brother: Yea, but You put ‘em on the floor and you try to put ‘em in the cup.

Peggy: Put ‘em in the cup.

Suzette: Oh.

Cyril: I left Horton in 1952 and went to Kansas city.

Suzette: Ok.

Cyril: And then, we lived down there for 50 years. Then I came back here 5 years ago. And every anniversary we’d always go to Father Mayoch’s church for our anniversary.

Suzette: Oh, you did how interesting, now what did you do while you were in Kansas City?

Cyril: I done company work down there with my younger brother.

Suzette: With your younger brother? You and your younger brother went to Kansas City?

Cyril: Right, well, he was, he was already there. He was goin’ to school under the G.I. Bill to get into radio business. When I got down there he quit that so he could work with me.

Suzette: I see, now did you take advantage of the G.I. Bill to, to do any school or anything?

Cyril: No. When the, when I was discharged I could have had my tonsils taken out and I said I’ll get ‘em out when I get home. Dum, see, I should have let them do it. It cost me 35 dollars to have my tonsils taken out down here.

Peggy: Your tonsils-

Cyril: And had to pay $5 dollars a day for the room that I was in. (laughter)

Suzette: Man.

Cyril: It wouldn’t have cost me noth’n in the service.

Peggy: That’s quite an episode to have your tonsils taken out as an adult.

Brother: yes.

Suzette: As an adult it’s kind of tough to have your tonsils taken out. Isn’t it harder when you’re an adult for your tonsils to be removed?

Cyril: No.

Suzette: I think, I think you get sicker.

Brother: He talked me into it and I followed him and I’d keep ‘em now if could.

Suzette: Well, why did he talk you into taking your tonsils out?

Brother: He said he thought I needed ‘em out.

Peggy: Were they bad?

Brother: yea.

Suzette: He just wanted you to experience his.

Brother: His didn’t hurt, mine did. (laughter)

Suzette: Oh really?

Cyril: He, he went up to Illinois to buy a car when I had mine taken out, see. So we didn’t have ‘em taken out at the same time.

Suzette: Oh, I see.

Cyril: He couldn’t find a car here so he had to go up there.

Suzette: Well of course, he got to travel. (laughter) Um, did you take advantage of the G.I. Bill to build a home?

Cyril: No.

Suzette: Um, but your, was it your younger brother who took advantage of the G.I. bill to get some beginning training?

Cyril: Yes, um, hum.

Suzette: And do you know if he used the G.I. Bill to build a home or get a loan or anything?

Cyril: No, I don’t think he did.

Suzette: Ok. And then you came back to Horton about five years ago you said.

Cyril: Um,hum. Um, hum.

Suzette: And you came back to be with your brothers?

Cyril: Well, we got married here, er, we got married there in Kansas City and I’m going to be buried out here, so we started our life here. My wife and I lived here 6 years after we got married, see.

Suzette: Oh you did? And you were doing carpentry work here?

Cyril: Right.

Suzette: Um, did the, did the Army prepare you for anything

Cyril: No, nooo

Suzette: In your civilian life? (laughter)

Peggy: He did not become a master chef it looks like. (laughter)

Suzette: Did you, did you cook for your wife?

Cyril: No. (laughter)

Suzette: All that training went for nothing! (laughing)

Peggy: I still want to know how he got his wife up here from San Antonio.

Suzette: Yea, yea, how did-

Peggy: Did she quit her job to come up here and get married or did she transfer up here?

Cyril: I didn’t hear you.

Peggy: When your wife got, came up from San Antonio did she get transferred or did she quit her job?

Cyril: No, she quit her job there.

Peggy: And came up to get married.

Cyril: right

Suzette: And, and did you join the American Legion or the VFW?

Cyril: I did, but, uh, like I said I was just here 6 years and that was it.

Suzette: Now you didn’t, you didn’t rejoin down in Kansas City or anything?

Cyril: No, no.

Suzette: And, uh, you and your brothers, uh, did you share your war experiences when you first came home? Did you talk about what you experienced?

Brother: I don’t think so.

Suzette: A lot, a lot of veterans didn’t want to really talk about some of the things they had seen. And I just wondered because you were brothers if you were more open about that?

Brother: I don’t think so. I learned stuff here from these two guys that I didn’t know.

Peggy: You know you’d be surprised how many times we hear that. We hear that from wives who say I never knew that before. You guys are really at a certain group.

Brother: ___(tape unclear) one more thing about being here before ___ we each had a ____buried out there. My, his son died at 6 years old, nine months later our son 4 ½ years old died. His was liver cancer; ours was leukemia.

Peggy: Oh, how terrible.

Brother: Now these two here have grandchildren. How old was-

Rita: Bradley was 5

Brother: He was 5 years old

Rita: He had Bries Syndrome that was our grandson.

Suzette: Oh, what a tragedy for the family, for everybody’s families. Do you have any other children?                

Brother: three.

Suzette: You have three other children? What about you Alf?

Alf: Four.

Suzette: You have four?

Alf: Two and two.

Brother: Yea, you almost had a full house. My oldest one is a priest my daughter’s in prison and the youngest one is, uh, a mechanic. My daughter does get to go home at night. (laughter)

Peggy: That’s good. Where does she work?

Brother: She’s a deputy warden down at the- (laughter)

Suzette: I knew-

-Confused talking and laughing, nothing distinguishable.

 Suzette: I was not going to touch that one! (laughter)

Peggy: I know how to- (more laughter and confused talking)

Brother: Theres three deputies under the warden at the prison down there. She’s the only female, so.

Peggy: Is she in Lancing or Leavenworth?

Brother: Lancing.

Suzette: So, it’s probably something for a woman to achieve that rank.

Brother: Yes.

Suzette: ‘Cause it’s probably a male field.

Brother: As far as I know she’s the first.

Suzette: I’m, I’m not surprised. And, so Cyril do you have children?

Cyril: Yes, we had six. Three boys and three girls, the last of ‘em were twin girls.

Suzette: Ok.

Cyril: And the first child was the one that died.

Suzette: Oh, that’s tough.

Cyril: And three died in Kansas City when we were liv’n down there.

Suzette: Oh, that’s really tough. So, when you were in KC were you in construction in KC? Was that what you were doing?

Cyril: Um, hum.

Suzette: Were you building new houses or what were you doing?

Cyril: Just build’n houses.

Suzette: Was there a big boom after the war in the housing industry.

Cyril: Well, yes. The veterans came home and ever body was look’n for a home to buy or build, you know, so. There’s a fellow here who used to be a carpenter with my dad and he tried to get me to come down right after the war. He said you did a hole and there’s a sold sign on it. They don’t know what the house is going to be but there’s going to be a house and their goi’n to buy it, see.

Suzette: Um, hum.

Cyril: But I didn’t go down. I stayed here til ’52, that’s when I went down.

Suzette: And then you went down and were things still booming at that time?

Cyril: Oh, sure

Peggy: What part of Kansas City were you building in?

Cyril:  Kansas City, KS. Most of it was

Peggy: Wyandot County?

Cyril: Wyandot County.

Peggy: Johnson County.

Suzette: Did you have a construction company, I mean did you have a company name or how did you, how did you do that in those days? You just bought land and went and built houses and sold ‘em yourself or?

Cyril: Well, we’d build on somebody else’s lot.

Suzette: They hired you to come build and frame?

Cyril: Um, hum.

Suzette: Well-

Cyril: Just like Leonard and Alf done it. They done that up here see.

Suzette: Well, they didn’t tell me exactly what they did. (laughter)

Brother: You didn’t ask. 

Suzette: I don’t have to pull out everything.

Brother: Well, you found out too much now!

Brother: Yea. (laughter) Winklebauer brothers Horton, KS. Winklebauer brothers Kansas City, KS. You talk about gett’n a secretaries in a knit when they get an invoice with the same majors.

Suzette: Oh.

Brother: It’s an odd name to begin with.

Suzette: This is really, really interesting, so.

Brother: ___(tape unclear) closed us down about 4 months ago ____

Suzette: Ok. Do you have anything else you would like to share with us about your experience during WWII, how anything changed?

Cyril: No, I think I told you all that.

Suzette: Ok, do you have some things over here? I’ve given Cyril his last opportunity to speak this is your last opportunity to speak.

Brother: We’ll shut up. (laughter)

Peggy: Grab that picture from Leonard that he wanted.

Suzette: Ok. Leonard may I grab this picture then?

Leonard: Which one do you want?

Suzette: Um, I probably like this, um, this, this one

Brother: One’s got the women. One’s got the men.

Suzette: Well, they’ve got everything. I kind’a like this one. Which one do you prefer?

Leonard: Well, that one ‘cause I’m no on it. (laughter)

Suzette: You’re not in this picture? Well we don’t want that one. (laughter) You’re in this picture? Where are you?

Leonard: Right behind my wife Thelma.

Suzette: Ah, see. This one has Leonard in it.

Peggy: We want one with Leonard.

Suzette: And this is Leonard right here, Peggy.

Peggy: The tall one. (laughter)

Suzette: Yes

Peggy: On the right.

Suzette: Cyril has to be modest and quiet because of his two brothers (laughter)

Peggy: The tall one behind the white haired lady on the right.

Suzette: That’s his wife.

Brother: I think he knows her.

Suzette: Here’s a picture of the two of them together probably from that same convention.

Leo: That’s where I totaled it.

Suzette: But it does come out well.

Leo: Yea, and that guy was a Sergeant in our company (Peggy conferring in background)

Suzette: Was he?

Peggy: should I turn it off now?

Suzette: No, Peggy just a sec, Oh, I want to thank you, all three of you. You’ve been so patient. You have spent a lot of time with us today, and I cannot tell you how much we appreciate it.

Peggy: And thank Rita for being here.

Brother: Do we get paid? (laughter)

Suzette: Yea, I’ll, I’ll take care of you guys. (laughter) Rita thank you so much for your gracious hospitality and serving us, and do you have anything you’d like to add?

Rita: No. Well, my brother was killed.

Suzette: Your brother was in, was in the service?

Rita: Um, hum. He’s buried in Italy.

Suzette: Italy?

Rita: Florence

Suzette: Have you ever been able to visit him?

Rita: No.

Aloysius: somebody did, who was it, somebody just recently was over there and, uh, they was able to visit the grave over there too.

Suzette: Was he in the army?

Aloysius: Yea. He was in the infantry but he got killed as a, a medic.

Suzette: As a medic?

Aloysius: Um, hum. I was holding up to the, then again I always go back to the ____(tape unclear and that is, boy it’s the most amazing history we could ever ask for because it went from a civilian population to, uh,

Rita: Are you talking to ___(tape unclear) or do you know yet?

Suzette: to Lori? I have not set up my interview with him yet, I would like to.

Cyril: He’s goi’n to be goi’n to church pretty soon.

Suzette: We’re not talking to him today. I’m gonna call him.

Cyril: You’re gonna come back.

Suzette: Yes.

Cyril: Do you have a permit to be in this town twice? (laughter)

Suzette: Well, since I didn’t get a speeding ticket yet.

Peggy: She have to catch the train the rest the year. (laughter)

Suzette: Peggy, you’re such a, you know what, yesterday we were driving-

Cyril: Who’s is this?

Suzette: This belongs to Leonard. Yesterday we were driving in KC and she was clutching the door handle with her hand.

Cyril: You were driving.   

Suzette: I was driving.

Peggy: 90 miles an hour in a 35

Rita: This is where he is buried, and here is his, I was gonna say, if you’re going to see Loyd he will give you this information I’m sure.

 Suzette: Oh, yes. I do wanna call Loyd. And, see I wasn’t sure if we’d be able to do three people today and it’s a good thing I didn’t have the fourth one. You guys would all feint. So your brother was a medic?

Cyril: No he was in the infantry but he died as a medic.

Rita: Helping the wounded up right at the front lines.

Suzette: Wow. Now I didn’t realize we had a cemetery memorial in Italy but it makes sense that we would.

Rita: Yes.

Suzette: Now is it Raymond Sheats, a Sergent in the 134th infantry 34th division, uh, it says Iowa?

Rita: Um, hum. That’s where he entered in, was drafted.

Suzette: Ok. October 22, 1944.

Cyril: You know I was look’n on the ___when the ___and we went in to Florence there was a whole bunch on that and I was try’n to, uh, find out who ----mumble between brothers-----but I never did see him. How did you get that like that, Rita.

Rita: I had written to the

Brother: department?

Rita: Department. And they sent this to me and they told me at that time I could send money for flowers and they would, at that time it was 15 dollars, like Memorial Day or something.

---(tape break)---All that sorrow at that time and if we bring him back it would just be another day of it, so she left him over there. 

Suzette: How did you feel about your brother getting killed.

Rita:  It was kind’a tragic that’s for sure.

Cyril: He was, he was just older than she is. How old was Raymond when he got killed?

Rita: 28 I believe.

Brother: 20 what?

Rita: 28 I think.

Suzette: That must have been a real tragedy. Was he your only brother or?

Rita: No, no, oh no, We had the same amount in our families, 8. In fact we had 9 in our family.

Suzette: Did you have more than one brother serving?

Rita: Loyd and Clemet and Raymond.

Suzette: Were you then concerned about losing your other brothers?

Rita: Oh, sure, sure

Peggy: you were in the midst of a bunch of prolific Catholic families.

Suzette: That’s how to get in touch with me.

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